Interests come from your relationship with the mode of production. […] The interests of both groups would mean an end yo commodity production, the law of value, money etc entirely
I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that this is the only factor which determines your interests… I think that is too simplistic… I think your position within capitalist structures matters… because you can be oppressed in one way and still participate in oppression of others in other ways… that seems to be true to me…
Okay… but I am not talking about innate characteristics… I am talking about weakening structures that make getting rid of capitalism more difficult… like of course introducing something like workplace democracy for example or putting in place anti corruption laws and cutting of political parties from burgeoius funding, or weakening the finance sector of the economy and making economy more based in actual production, weakening the ability to store wealth in the form of debt or getting rid of that so that eventuallt the state can confiscat the wealth of billionairs without it literally turning to thin air because it is based on shareholder trust, putting in place better wokters proctection, engaging in anti-colonial work by having france leave african countries alone or by giving palestinians national sovereignty, having democracy in arab countries instead of dictators in them… and so much more…
isn’t all that worthwhile before idk doing somehow an international revolution and declaring all class and all capitalist relations dissolved somehow…
Seriously… all I was saying is that groups within the proletariat will have specific interests that clash with that of other groups within the proletariat due to burgeois systems that have created in some groups of the proletariat a dependency on the oppression of other parts of the proletariat… I’m literally just talking about the issues that arise from capitalist globalization and colonialism and imperialism…
And yes only an international revolution could fix that… I really don’t understand it… if you depend as a worker on the oppression of a worker somewhere else than you need to fix that dependency on the oppression of another worker somewhere else… that’s one step of many steps… true liberation will as you said only come for both workers if we abolish capitalist modes of production entirely… I’m not disagreeing… just pointing out some complexities and why they creat tension and lead to the fact that we reasonably can argue that we would need to fight on behalf of other fights such as anti-colonial struggles as well
But that abolition is a final step… wouldn’t some inter-burgeois conflict as you call it be necessary first so soften some of those dependencies on the oppression of other countries by idk… creating either more fair relationships between countries or by creating more independence within a country and then shift more and more on a national level to communism before trying to make the revolution international…
I dont think you understand what communism is. I will once again ask you to read marx
I’m not an idiot… don’t treat me like I am… I have read excerpts of Marx… yes you might be more well-read than me… but don’t treat me like I’m an idiot… you have no right to simply brush me off by saying that I’m dumber or not as well-read.
Well… communism is a final step… before that you would first need to engage with interests related to money and finance and slowly start to dissolve them… you can’t just jump and arrive immediately into communism… that’s not possible… that’s why you also need a dictatorship of the proletariat, implying class still exists, before you arrive in a classless society.
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I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that this is the only factor which determines your interests… I think that is too simplistic… I think your position within capitalist structures matters… because you can be oppressed in one way and still participate in oppression of others in other ways… that seems to be true to me…
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Well but it does impact your interest as an individual or as a group of people…
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Yeah but that’s a process and some interests of proletarian groups will first need to address these issues before jumping to dismantling capitalism…
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Okay… but I am not talking about innate characteristics… I am talking about weakening structures that make getting rid of capitalism more difficult… like of course introducing something like workplace democracy for example or putting in place anti corruption laws and cutting of political parties from burgeoius funding, or weakening the finance sector of the economy and making economy more based in actual production, weakening the ability to store wealth in the form of debt or getting rid of that so that eventuallt the state can confiscat the wealth of billionairs without it literally turning to thin air because it is based on shareholder trust, putting in place better wokters proctection, engaging in anti-colonial work by having france leave african countries alone or by giving palestinians national sovereignty, having democracy in arab countries instead of dictators in them… and so much more…
isn’t all that worthwhile before idk doing somehow an international revolution and declaring all class and all capitalist relations dissolved somehow…
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Seriously… all I was saying is that groups within the proletariat will have specific interests that clash with that of other groups within the proletariat due to burgeois systems that have created in some groups of the proletariat a dependency on the oppression of other parts of the proletariat… I’m literally just talking about the issues that arise from capitalist globalization and colonialism and imperialism…
And yes only an international revolution could fix that… I really don’t understand it… if you depend as a worker on the oppression of a worker somewhere else than you need to fix that dependency on the oppression of another worker somewhere else… that’s one step of many steps… true liberation will as you said only come for both workers if we abolish capitalist modes of production entirely… I’m not disagreeing… just pointing out some complexities and why they creat tension and lead to the fact that we reasonably can argue that we would need to fight on behalf of other fights such as anti-colonial struggles as well
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But that abolition is a final step… wouldn’t some inter-burgeois conflict as you call it be necessary first so soften some of those dependencies on the oppression of other countries by idk… creating either more fair relationships between countries or by creating more independence within a country and then shift more and more on a national level to communism before trying to make the revolution international…
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Yeah that was a stupid take ngl…
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From me…
I’m not an idiot… don’t treat me like I am… I have read excerpts of Marx… yes you might be more well-read than me… but don’t treat me like I’m an idiot… you have no right to simply brush me off by saying that I’m dumber or not as well-read.
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Well… communism is a final step… before that you would first need to engage with interests related to money and finance and slowly start to dissolve them… you can’t just jump and arrive immediately into communism… that’s not possible… that’s why you also need a dictatorship of the proletariat, implying class still exists, before you arrive in a classless society.
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Yes… i was just referring to it to point out that arriving at communism is a process
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Yeah… come on… really? International lower stage communism could be achieved rapidly… and you call me idealistic? Come on, seriously
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