Sorry… I was so involved in our conversation… I literally forgot the title… yeah it’s an exaggerated expression of frustration, maybe a genuinely held belief but I think it’s more of an overcorrection than a mistake…
I explained why I think the issue is more complicated and why the approach would to be very well thought out and is not something I somehow have a perfect solution for, sitting in my drawer… this would need the brain power of probably hundreds of people to think about and solve but well… that’s kind of an idealist view of looking at it considering the material reality on the ground right now…
i just want someone to tell me how israel is so different from the us or any other colonial state like brazil, mexico, canada, australia, etc. why arent we calling for colonist to be expelled from those places?
people say its because it isnt feasible but then neither is expelling 7 million jewish israelis. especially when a large number of them are or are descendants of arab jews who were expelled from surrounding countries and have no where to go. israel is almost a century old. the people living there are not going anywhere without the use of brutal force that will lead to the deaths and suffering of millions that would make the dissolution of yugoslavia look like a walk in the park.
I think the difference is the fact they are still actively engaging in the extermination of the indigenous population… that their colonial project isn’t finished yet and so still can be fought against which isn’t feasible in the case of the US… an ongoing anti-colonial struggle shouldn’t be dismissed just due to the succes of other atrocious colonial projects that destroyed any realistic opportunity for resistance… though yes we should have repartion or reparations or other measures for the native Americans for example and have that discussion… but that right now is not as important as preventing the completion of another colonial project…
Also I agree that simply expelling everybody isn’t a solution and wouldn’t work and that resolving the issue would need a very complicated and well thought out approach… but it would defineltly need decolonisation to some degree… would require dezionisation, demilitarisation, reparations, and so so so much more…
I hate this cop out so much. the indigenous americans arent wiped out. why are we giving up on them? theres millions left. especially in latin american countries.
yall cant keep saying their genocide is “over” when state violence is continued against indigenous communities to this day. its so fucked up
That’s a good point… but I think the issue is that in the case of the indigenous native Americans we really don’t have a movement with any feasible change chance of overthrowing their oppressors and colonizers…
But you’re right, saying “well they are all already dead anyway” is not okay and fucked up…
okay, and again i ask how its anymore feasible in israel? anything that’s materially possible in israel is just as difficult ro achieve as land back movements in the US, which do exist and have ways you can support them even if there isnt an active armed struggle.
i have not been trying to say i support israel this whole argument with you and others. israel should have never existed, it is a bourgeois ethno state. but its abolition, if it were to happen, would not, and should not lead to the ethnic cleansing of millions of people. and if you believe it should (not saying you specifically do) then you must also grapple with the fact that to hold a consistent world view it must also be applied to other colonial states, chief among them the US.
but everyone who claims to care about land rights by blood and what not keeps making the same excuses that colonial states do to justify why they dont need to hold their views consistently. because those genocides are “over”, when they very much are not.
I do agree that painting the native American issue as “history” conceals the fact that these genocides are to some degree still ongoing… but again I think you’ve pointed out yourself that there is no armed struggle… that’s why I say that it’s not as feasible in the US…
but you still have not given me any reason as to how its anymore feasible in israel. what do you do with the 7 million jewish israelis who live there? like seriously
>I didn’t see Ababail taking about that
what? the title of this post is literally
“Israel shouldn’t exist and it’s colonists should be expelled to the countries they came from originally, with or without force”
Sorry… I was so involved in our conversation… I literally forgot the title… yeah it’s an exaggerated expression of frustration, maybe a genuinely held belief but I think it’s more of an overcorrection than a mistake…
I explained why I think the issue is more complicated and why the approach would to be very well thought out and is not something I somehow have a perfect solution for, sitting in my drawer… this would need the brain power of probably hundreds of people to think about and solve but well… that’s kind of an idealist view of looking at it considering the material reality on the ground right now…
i just want someone to tell me how israel is so different from the us or any other colonial state like brazil, mexico, canada, australia, etc. why arent we calling for colonist to be expelled from those places?
people say its because it isnt feasible but then neither is expelling 7 million jewish israelis. especially when a large number of them are or are descendants of arab jews who were expelled from surrounding countries and have no where to go. israel is almost a century old. the people living there are not going anywhere without the use of brutal force that will lead to the deaths and suffering of millions that would make the dissolution of yugoslavia look like a walk in the park.
I think the difference is the fact they are still actively engaging in the extermination of the indigenous population… that their colonial project isn’t finished yet and so still can be fought against which isn’t feasible in the case of the US… an ongoing anti-colonial struggle shouldn’t be dismissed just due to the succes of other atrocious colonial projects that destroyed any realistic opportunity for resistance… though yes we should have repartion or reparations or other measures for the native Americans for example and have that discussion… but that right now is not as important as preventing the completion of another colonial project…
Also I agree that simply expelling everybody isn’t a solution and wouldn’t work and that resolving the issue would need a very complicated and well thought out approach… but it would defineltly need decolonisation to some degree… would require dezionisation, demilitarisation, reparations, and so so so much more…
I hate this cop out so much. the indigenous americans arent wiped out. why are we giving up on them? theres millions left. especially in latin american countries.
yall cant keep saying their genocide is “over” when state violence is continued against indigenous communities to this day. its so fucked up
That’s a good point… but I think the issue is that in the case of the indigenous native Americans we really don’t have a movement with any feasible change chance of overthrowing their oppressors and colonizers…
But you’re right, saying “well they are all already dead anyway” is not okay and fucked up…
okay, and again i ask how its anymore feasible in israel? anything that’s materially possible in israel is just as difficult ro achieve as land back movements in the US, which do exist and have ways you can support them even if there isnt an active armed struggle.
i have not been trying to say i support israel this whole argument with you and others. israel should have never existed, it is a bourgeois ethno state. but its abolition, if it were to happen, would not, and should not lead to the ethnic cleansing of millions of people. and if you believe it should (not saying you specifically do) then you must also grapple with the fact that to hold a consistent world view it must also be applied to other colonial states, chief among them the US.
but everyone who claims to care about land rights by blood and what not keeps making the same excuses that colonial states do to justify why they dont need to hold their views consistently. because those genocides are “over”, when they very much are not.
I do agree that painting the native American issue as “history” conceals the fact that these genocides are to some degree still ongoing… but again I think you’ve pointed out yourself that there is no armed struggle… that’s why I say that it’s not as feasible in the US…
but you still have not given me any reason as to how its anymore feasible in israel. what do you do with the 7 million jewish israelis who live there? like seriously
I think you answered your own question