I do agree that painting the native American issue as “history” conceals the fact that these genocides are to some degree still ongoing… but again I think you’ve pointed out yourself that there is no armed struggle… that’s why I say that it’s not as feasible in the US…
but you still have not given me any reason as to how its anymore feasible in israel. what do you do with the 7 million jewish israelis who live there? like seriously
Okay well this isn’t a perfect plan but this is a number of things we could and should do and that could help us with this specific case:
Dezionisation (no Persilscheine this time)
Nurnberg style trials for zionist state officials, The Likud, IDF generals, diplomats, the “cultural” office, mossad, important zionist personalities and organisations in israel or abroad, who have engaged in avocating for genocide and zionism
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Trials for involvement in radical zionist or radical ethno-nationalist groups such as religious extremist organisations and militas…
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Signing of universal civil and human rights under the jurisdiction of the internal courts
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Baning of all zionist organisations and all radical ethno-nationalist organisations, including Palestinian ethno-nationalist organisations…
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Baning of subversive material and symbols and propaganda organisations and implant extreme hate speech laws and anti violence and anti discrimination laws for all groups
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Intense and permanent public re-education campaigns and revision of school curricular to ensure an appropriate pedagogy of children
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Involve especially young children in the new generation in intense youth group activities with mixed participation of Palestinians and Israelis with trained personal with no biases and instal in them unifying thought to thwart the influence of parents with zionist or antisemtic views
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Democratization
Rewrite the law to protect every group by giving everyone equal civil and human rights
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Prevent garymandering with laws and use a dual vote system to ensure equal representation
.
Disallow political parties to operate along ethnic or religious lines to prevent tensions
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Ensure equal participation in public spaces and private enterprise for Palestinians and Israelis via oversight boards and quotas
.
Equal access to school and university and no more separation for arab and Israeli children
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Try preventing and softening up ghettoisation of groups into different quarters with new zoning laws to ensure more mixed and shares spaces
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One territory, one citizenship, one passport, new documents for everybody, maybe at most a marker in one’s ID signaling if you are Israeli or Palestinian, essentially a Dual-Nation model
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Resecularisation to ensure less religious and ethnic tensions, including no third temple
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Make Hebrew and Palestinian both the official state language, teach both and encourage dialog to build linguistic bridges over time
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Rename the country something neutral
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Decolonisation (in disputed territories)
removal of settlers on occupied lands in the West Bank according to 1967 boarders
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denaturalisation of Israeli citenzs who have not lived there for more than three generations or since before the establishment of the “right of return” in 1950 (this is a rather smal number)
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Recent Israeli immigrants with dual citizenship or who lived in Israel for less than 30 years have to leave and go back to their country of origin
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Right of return for Palestinians up to the third generation fo a duration of approxim. 30 years
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Renaming places to bear their historic name
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Demilitarisation (to prevent future conlict)
No right to bear arms for any citizens and very strong anti gun laws, no import, export, production or selling, no smuggling etc.
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Demilitarisation of police force and very little involvement of police in public life and equal quota for Palestinians and Israeli, no access to heavy weaponry, extreme background checks
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Dismantling of the military apparatus, all nuclear arsenal and foreign military bases aborad and in the territory itself
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Dismantling of the surveillance apparatus and usage of surveillance only strong anti terrorism measures according to laws of transparency
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Permanent intense UN peace mission and dismantling of any military industry to prevent any form of possible weapons production
.
This is the stuff that would come to mind… for me personally this is how it would have to be done and I think that is still a lot more feasible in an on going conflict that could maybe maybe still turn out in favor of the indigenous people.
so ethnic cleansing dressed up as woke? you said its a small amount of peoppe who wouldnt be denaturalized. so they get to stay as second class citizens? as visitors? do they apply for visas then? what if they have no other citizenship? are we going to make these people stateless too like the Palestinians before them?
theres also no material push for anything like this. it doesnt exist. nothing like this is even close to feasible. its a liberal fever dream.
My idea was never jews out…??? My idea was… how can we fix Israeli society from being a fascist genocidal population that similar to nazi germany saw the people they opressed as subhuman… how do we fix that kind of viewpoint on both sides and create a nation where people can live somewhat equally while accounting for the historic injustices that occured and somehow try to fix all that…
>how do we fix that kind of viewpoint on both sides and create a nation where people can live somewhat equally while accounting for the historic injustices that occured and somehow try to fix all that…
by doing away with the nation state entirely through proletarian revolution, as its a idealistic bourgeois invention.
but yes, sorry. i got hung up on the expulsion thing because its unfeasible and tribalisitic is all and the original topic of this post. plus people keep trying to make excuses why it should be done in israel but not elsewhere which i think is stupid. if you want to be a land back de-colonist sure, but at least apply it evenly. i dont support israel or zionism or whatever else.
Okay… sure… I was talking about it from a national liberationis perspective and not a communist one but I dont think they are not compatible… first national liberation, then proletarian revolution… I think that is a reasonable position. I dont think the decolonisation thing is tribalistic… not really… but whatever…
No they dont get to stay as second class citizens… they are full citizens with equal rights… I am saying that people who literally moved to Israeli like two years ago after having lived in america their entire life of course should not simply be citizens now. If they have no other citizenship, they can stay because otherwise we would be breaking international law. But most of them do have a second citizenship. Again most Israelis are born in Israel and their families have been there for a long time but a certain amount have not and I dont think they should stay…
Also this was a hypothetical proposel… yes none of this is realistically feasible… I kinda just got very off topic and started thinking about what one should do if the zionist state was defeated… sorry I got completely carried away and didnt adress your point.
But yeah… you are right… but the absence of armed resistance is I think the important criteria but yeah… of course we should also focus on these other cases of genocide and colonial disposession… I just think that this one is a very active one right now…
I do agree that painting the native American issue as “history” conceals the fact that these genocides are to some degree still ongoing… but again I think you’ve pointed out yourself that there is no armed struggle… that’s why I say that it’s not as feasible in the US…
but you still have not given me any reason as to how its anymore feasible in israel. what do you do with the 7 million jewish israelis who live there? like seriously
Okay well this isn’t a perfect plan but this is a number of things we could and should do and that could help us with this specific case:
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This is the stuff that would come to mind… for me personally this is how it would have to be done and I think that is still a lot more feasible in an on going conflict that could maybe maybe still turn out in favor of the indigenous people.
so ethnic cleansing dressed up as woke? you said its a small amount of peoppe who wouldnt be denaturalized. so they get to stay as second class citizens? as visitors? do they apply for visas then? what if they have no other citizenship? are we going to make these people stateless too like the Palestinians before them?
theres also no material push for anything like this. it doesnt exist. nothing like this is even close to feasible. its a liberal fever dream.
My idea was never jews out…??? My idea was… how can we fix Israeli society from being a fascist genocidal population that similar to nazi germany saw the people they opressed as subhuman… how do we fix that kind of viewpoint on both sides and create a nation where people can live somewhat equally while accounting for the historic injustices that occured and somehow try to fix all that…
>how do we fix that kind of viewpoint on both sides and create a nation where people can live somewhat equally while accounting for the historic injustices that occured and somehow try to fix all that…
by doing away with the nation state entirely through proletarian revolution, as its a idealistic bourgeois invention.
but yes, sorry. i got hung up on the expulsion thing because its unfeasible and tribalisitic is all and the original topic of this post. plus people keep trying to make excuses why it should be done in israel but not elsewhere which i think is stupid. if you want to be a land back de-colonist sure, but at least apply it evenly. i dont support israel or zionism or whatever else.
Okay… sure… I was talking about it from a national liberationis perspective and not a communist one but I dont think they are not compatible… first national liberation, then proletarian revolution… I think that is a reasonable position. I dont think the decolonisation thing is tribalistic… not really… but whatever…
No they dont get to stay as second class citizens… they are full citizens with equal rights… I am saying that people who literally moved to Israeli like two years ago after having lived in america their entire life of course should not simply be citizens now. If they have no other citizenship, they can stay because otherwise we would be breaking international law. But most of them do have a second citizenship. Again most Israelis are born in Israel and their families have been there for a long time but a certain amount have not and I dont think they should stay…
Also this was a hypothetical proposel… yes none of this is realistically feasible… I kinda just got very off topic and started thinking about what one should do if the zionist state was defeated… sorry I got completely carried away and didnt adress your point.
But yeah… you are right… but the absence of armed resistance is I think the important criteria but yeah… of course we should also focus on these other cases of genocide and colonial disposession… I just think that this one is a very active one right now…