its complicated, since race and hence whiteness is not an objective class8fication. again i said not WASP white and hence othered. to a smaller extent, majority Catholic groups used to face ostracism as well that marked them as non white (Italians, irish). but the Jews do co sider themselves white or white adjacent by large (complicated by the fact that it is a religious, not racial category)
Completely correct to say Race is not an objective classification, it’s basically nonsensical, the most racist guys in Europe back in the early and mid 1800s, genuinely believed Ethiopians were as close to Europeans as Bulgarians.
Catholic discrimination was actually based off ethnic discrimination because it was associated with the Irish, Italians, and Polish, but their discrimination was never as bad as discrimination against Jews if we’re being serious.
Jews considering themselves white is because of Anti-Semitism and trying to essentially blend in or kind of hide their Jewishness, any racist from 1920 wouldn’t view even the whitest Jew as white, it’s a modern idea that actually comes out of Anti-Semitism, as now it’s not seen as favourable to be white and it’s seen as also trying to associate Israel with European Colonisers such as Belgium and France.
yeah but race evolves because irs a construct, benjamin franklin didnt think dutch people were white but they very much are now. the views of 20s racists arent indicative of modern attitudes.
i suppose in the modern day we could say that jewish people claim whiteness. that claim is disputed, but still exists. the irish itslians etc also had a disputed claim to whiteness, but since, as you note, anti semitism is a much more enduring and vindictive force, their dispute was resolved to agree with their claim. however i would say that the existence of the claim means that the jewish are at the lesst considered “white passing”, except when jewish identity specifically is being considered. for comparison, black and brown people do not have a claim to whiteness, disputed or otherwise. but the white latino population in the us for example does have a similarly disputed claim to whiteness, where they are considered white in the agregate of white vs non white, but are singled out and separated from other white people when their latino identity is focused on as with ice deportations etc.
its complicated, since race and hence whiteness is not an objective class8fication. again i said not WASP white and hence othered. to a smaller extent, majority Catholic groups used to face ostracism as well that marked them as non white (Italians, irish). but the Jews do co sider themselves white or white adjacent by large (complicated by the fact that it is a religious, not racial category)
Completely correct to say Race is not an objective classification, it’s basically nonsensical, the most racist guys in Europe back in the early and mid 1800s, genuinely believed Ethiopians were as close to Europeans as Bulgarians.
Catholic discrimination was actually based off ethnic discrimination because it was associated with the Irish, Italians, and Polish, but their discrimination was never as bad as discrimination against Jews if we’re being serious.
Jews considering themselves white is because of Anti-Semitism and trying to essentially blend in or kind of hide their Jewishness, any racist from 1920 wouldn’t view even the whitest Jew as white, it’s a modern idea that actually comes out of Anti-Semitism, as now it’s not seen as favourable to be white and it’s seen as also trying to associate Israel with European Colonisers such as Belgium and France.
yeah but race evolves because irs a construct, benjamin franklin didnt think dutch people were white but they very much are now. the views of 20s racists arent indicative of modern attitudes.
i suppose in the modern day we could say that jewish people claim whiteness. that claim is disputed, but still exists. the irish itslians etc also had a disputed claim to whiteness, but since, as you note, anti semitism is a much more enduring and vindictive force, their dispute was resolved to agree with their claim. however i would say that the existence of the claim means that the jewish are at the lesst considered “white passing”, except when jewish identity specifically is being considered. for comparison, black and brown people do not have a claim to whiteness, disputed or otherwise. but the white latino population in the us for example does have a similarly disputed claim to whiteness, where they are considered white in the agregate of white vs non white, but are singled out and separated from other white people when their latino identity is focused on as with ice deportations etc.