like, people will post something about Christianity, and i’ll spend a decent amount of time writing a thoughtful reply based on radical liberation theology only to have my comment immediately rejected by the person i was replying to because they’re only really interested in dunking on the stupid, idiot religioids… i don’t mind anyone dunking on religious institutions, because basically all of them are horrible, and i, obviously, understand that many may have religious trauma. but, still, it saddens me that so many trannies seem so fundamentally incapable of engaging with other ways of interpreting life and our place in the Universe. like, they’ve just replaced fundamentalist religion with fundamentalist atheism, and, tbh, even though the latter tends to produce significantly better political positions and outcomes, i do think they’re pretty much just as anti-intellectual at their core… and, i guess, i just feel like if there’s one group of people who should at least be somewhat open to hearing out other perspectives than the dominant one, it’d be trannies :I

  • MagpieOP
    3·
    10 days ago

    yea, i think that’s correct. tho, i guess i’d argue that religious frameworks, at least Christianity, can’t ever really be detached from the material conditions that lead to their existence, anyway. like, the Bible isn’t the literal Word of God, but it’s been written by many people at different points in time, and the way people have interpreted the text has everything to do with class conditions. and, personally, i’d take it even further and say that all religions are fundamentally just the products of material conditions. like, i don’t really believe there’s such a thing as a Correct religion; but, rather, there are only ever imperfect attempts at understanding our existence, and, obviously, these attempts are all borne out of specific material conditions… i just think there might still be room for some kind of religious-like institution through which we can orient our moral frameworks, though i suppose that starts to rub against marxism… hmmm, i’m not really sure, tbh…

      • MagpieOP
        1·
        10 days ago

        i think i fundamentally disagree with the idea that “the role of moral frameworks and religion is fundamentally to serve the dominant class, and that is what every existing religion on the planet does.” like, to me, that just seems to based on a caricature of religion and morality… how can a moral framework that precludes private ownership be a means of social control co-opted by the bourgeoisie?

          • MagpieOP
            2·
            10 days ago

            hmmmm, i’m not really sure, but i don’t really agree that morality necessitates utopian socialism, and i definitely don’t agree that it inherently relies on bourgeois logic, even if i’m not sure exactly how to express my disagreement. tho, i will say that part of me has always been uncomfortable with the positivism inherent to scientific socialism… like, to me, positivism is itself a fundamentally bourgeois logic and ideologically suspect. i guess, maybe, i might be looking for something that transcends both scientific and utopian socialism? i’m not really sure… am i maybe just a heterodox marxist as opposed to an orthodox marxist? i don’t know, at this point, i’m far, far beyond the bounds of my knowledge on marxism 😭

              • MagpieOP
                1·
                10 days ago

                is the idea that social structures are governed purely by deterministic laws not inherently positivist? like, i guess part of the issue here is that there’s not really a marxism but many different marxisms. and i mean, i don’t disagree with the way you describe marxism as a tool for social analysis; tho, i don’t see how that precludes religion in any way.

                i’m also not arguing that socialism should be built on moral arguments. class struggle and revolution are necessary, but again, in my mind, there’s nothing about contradictory about believing in religion and revolution. i don’t think a society should be built on the basis of religion; to me, that’s kinda like putting the cart before the horse, i guess. i just think there’s room for certain kinds of religion alongside marxism, i guess. maybe another way to think about it is in the same way as art? to me at least, religion, art, and philosophy all kinda exist in the same domain in that they’re trying to grasp at something greater than just our individual selves, and i think a communist society would open up the possibilities for exactly that kind of exploration and creation. i don’t know if this makes any sense, but hopefully you can kinda see what i’m trying to get at 😭

                  • MagpieOP
                    1·
                    10 days ago

                    hard agree with the first paragraph, yea. and i think i’d also say i generally also despise moralism, especially the kind of liberal (i.e., moralism) that’s so common in online discourse 🤮 i suppose, maybe, the best way to explain how i apply religious moral frameworks is that i use them as an imperfect guide for how to live in an imperfect world…? like, we obviously live in a bourgeois society now, and i’d like to try my best to live my life as justly as possible within the boundaries set by said bourgeois society, and over time i’ve kinda just arrived at a religious moral framework as the best way to do that. however, honestly, i think, if a communist society were to emerge right now, my religious moral framework would kinda melt away and become one with the way of life, or maybe it’d take on a new form… i’m not sure…